I was reading Luke Rhinehart's brilliant novel; The Dice man and I came by the following interesting passage:
"But he didn't know if he was Dr. Rhinehart who had dreamt he was playing the role of a bumblebee, or a bumblebee dreaming he was Dr. Rhinehart. He didn't know and his head was buzzing"
This is another wording of the brilliant Zhuangzi’s "Butterfly dream”, it says:
Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.
I then recalled Edgar Allan Poe’s “A dream within a dream”:
"Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Both the philosopher and the poet are dealing with an important issue, that is; Are we in the waking life or we in a dream, a lucid dream? Could this life be just a dream? We are being subjects in some person’s dream? A butterfly’s dream? A deity’s dream, maybe? What if when we actually dream we are in the waking life not the other way around? And it is the ultimate naked truth, and we cannot always remember it as in the manner of the Matrix’s Neo when he first woke up and it is explained that his eyes was hurting since it was the first time to use it? What if I and only I exists, and you are just a part of my mind’s projection? Prove me wrong. Prove me right.
If you think I am insane, and therefore you are sane, adding to that I am the only consciousness available, making you a sane projection of my insane mind, how sane are you then? And how insane am I? Prove my sanity, when you are my sane projection of my insanity.
On the other hand, if I am the dream, a projection of your mind, how can I exist outside the borders of your kingdom arguing your sanity? Or am I the sane projection of your insane mind? Am I in your dream? Are you the butterfly?
“I think therefore I am” or as René Descartes originally said it “je pense, donc je suis” proposes that doubting once existence simply means the “I” exists to do the doubting. I for now doubt the originality of my existence as a self-conscious human being, and propose the argument of being a subject in a dream or a projection of someone/something else, that makes me an original existence and a conscious being, again, what does that make you?
But if we both doubt out existence wouldn't that somehow affect Descartes proposition, he was talking about a one “I”, my question is about multiple “I”s, does that mean that we all exists, or we all negate each other? If we all exist, than who is the non-existent? And if we all do not exist, what does that make us? A conscious Schrödinger's being in a super-position? What if we all exist as a conscious being, but as subjects in a dream? As if our consciousness is transferred to some other place, yet the consciousness is not self aware of its new existence?
Do not mind my questions, as I bid you some wine, for that the Latin proverb says “In vino veritas” or in wine there is truth. We will drink and let our conscious sane minds blurt the truth of our existence.
"But he didn't know if he was Dr. Rhinehart who had dreamt he was playing the role of a bumblebee, or a bumblebee dreaming he was Dr. Rhinehart. He didn't know and his head was buzzing"
This is another wording of the brilliant Zhuangzi’s "Butterfly dream”, it says:
Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.
I then recalled Edgar Allan Poe’s “A dream within a dream”:
"Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"
Both the philosopher and the poet are dealing with an important issue, that is; Are we in the waking life or we in a dream, a lucid dream? Could this life be just a dream? We are being subjects in some person’s dream? A butterfly’s dream? A deity’s dream, maybe? What if when we actually dream we are in the waking life not the other way around? And it is the ultimate naked truth, and we cannot always remember it as in the manner of the Matrix’s Neo when he first woke up and it is explained that his eyes was hurting since it was the first time to use it? What if I and only I exists, and you are just a part of my mind’s projection? Prove me wrong. Prove me right.
If you think I am insane, and therefore you are sane, adding to that I am the only consciousness available, making you a sane projection of my insane mind, how sane are you then? And how insane am I? Prove my sanity, when you are my sane projection of my insanity.
On the other hand, if I am the dream, a projection of your mind, how can I exist outside the borders of your kingdom arguing your sanity? Or am I the sane projection of your insane mind? Am I in your dream? Are you the butterfly?
“I think therefore I am” or as René Descartes originally said it “je pense, donc je suis” proposes that doubting once existence simply means the “I” exists to do the doubting. I for now doubt the originality of my existence as a self-conscious human being, and propose the argument of being a subject in a dream or a projection of someone/something else, that makes me an original existence and a conscious being, again, what does that make you?
But if we both doubt out existence wouldn't that somehow affect Descartes proposition, he was talking about a one “I”, my question is about multiple “I”s, does that mean that we all exists, or we all negate each other? If we all exist, than who is the non-existent? And if we all do not exist, what does that make us? A conscious Schrödinger's being in a super-position? What if we all exist as a conscious being, but as subjects in a dream? As if our consciousness is transferred to some other place, yet the consciousness is not self aware of its new existence?
Do not mind my questions, as I bid you some wine, for that the Latin proverb says “In vino veritas” or in wine there is truth. We will drink and let our conscious sane minds blurt the truth of our existence.
All my adult life, I have been convinced that if it's not a matter of a " حلال " or " حرام " then there is no right and wrong.There is just things that people do. Life doesn't have a one way only to be lived, for each individual is born different from the other. So how can you expect different entities to be functioning the same way.
ReplyDeleteSo, defining reality is subjective. I personally live in my head 80% of my time. I'm not good with numbers but it seems like a big portion of my " life " is lived virtually, for it has no ground to hold it down. Does that make me an insane person?! does that make me not existing? does that mean that I don't exist in YOUR world?
I'm not gonna start on defining what insane means.. but for now lets use it in it's general context.
So to conclude my comment, who's to tell you what world do you exist at and what world you don't.
For me, the place in which you FIND yourself in the most, this is your reality. and this is your world.
to answer you, first living like 80% of your life virtually, does not make you insane, yet, it gives me the ground to doubt your existence (with all due respect for sure), but also you are existing in my world as am interacting with you,the question will be: Am I real conscious human being in your world, or am I just a projection of your mind? the question goes both ways.
ReplyDeletewho's to tell you what world do you exist at and what world you don't? well the "I" tell, yet eventually it is easier to believe that we live in the real world and we all are conscious human being interacting with each other, at least that what brings peace to our philosophical wandering minds.
Well, good point. Yet, now it makes you doubt my existence in YOUR world. Which again brings us back to, is your world even real ?
ReplyDeleteI think that before taking this topic any further, we should first discuss and maybe agree on one basic definition for Reality. Cause a huge segment of what you are questioning, is generated from having one real world where you exist in, and other multiple imaginary realities, where you escape to whenever you wish to.
Well, philosophical wandering, yes maybe even scientifically wanderings but the thing that keeps you from having a sharp quizzical independent mind to just a crazy one, is faith, which is of course shaped in the form of religion.
You get from all 3 major religions, the parameters of your world. It draws you the map and sets you out in a journey where you explore new places. Now, exploring new places does that mean that YOU found a really NEW place or is it just new to you ?! it was there long before you came, and maybe millions of others have taken it, but for you it's ... new.
what is reality? and is reality, or the world that we live in real? well, if you consider my hypothesis of doubting reality, then yea you can say it is my world that I live in, somehow. and I do not escape to other realities, am not schizophrenic.
ReplyDeleteAnd I do have faith, no question in that, but i always interesting to wander around the already set rules, not necessarily break them, yet to question and doubt is important to strengthen your faith, without loosing it.
well, either that place is new for me or for other, it is interesting enough to embark the mind journey to this place, and even if this place is there for millions of years, maybe maybe you will find another way to reach it, and through this way you open a new dimension of thinking.